Mak Jo Si or Tin Yat Lineage Taoism Q and A

Flowing Hands wrote:Let me introduce myself; I am a traditional Daoist Holyman (wu Shi).
I was accepted by my Divine masters 29 years ago in a temple in Malaysia. I was then baptized by another wu in a trance of the Monkey God, Chi Tien Da Shen. I have been taught by my Divine masters since then. On my website you will see that my lineage comes from the Mao Shan Temple, my Masters are there as the head of the sect....?

Okay, I don't want to be rude to you since you are new to the forum, but I don't know if you are a real person or just another guy speaking FOR Wilson Yong's side? Not accusing you, but very questionable.

Another thing is, you realized that Chi Tien Da Shen or 齊天大聖 is fake right? It's a novel character from novel only, why don't you summon batman and superman and call them your "God"?  You were "Baptized" too, wow, what a surprise. I am really speechless.

I do not mind you expressing or promoting yourself and your own lineage in this forum, since it is open for public. I will not interfere with your promotion as long as you do not disturb mind. But clearly shown, you hi-jacked into my thread and ask for troubles because you openly want to attack our lineage. Therefore, I will take you upfront and get you out of my way.

I am really sick and tired of those so-called lineages that have those fake gods such as the monkey-king bullshit. Why don't you try worshiping the little mermaid instead?

IMPORTANT NOTE

I did not go to YOUR place to talk about your lineage, but you hijacked MY thread to bash mine. Where is the logic in your brain now? Are you coming for troubles? I am not up here for any debates you realized that? I DO NOT need you to CONVERT me into your thinking and logic, since I don't see yours have any value and sense at all. I don't even care what you think Taoism is, and I never tell you to listen to me. You are no more but a CONTROL FREAK here trying to tell me what a Taoist SHOULD be and trying to have everyone go YOUR way. This is very disgusting. You should be ashame of your own actions because it is a disgrace of your own lineage already - control freaks.

Well, how come there are so many proclaimed MONKEY GOD around and all of them say they are the real MONKEY GOD possess in them? Can u tell me is the MONKEY GOD a Taoist or Buddhist as the story goes is he followed the monk to get the Buddha scripture and later became a Buddhist follower, so which is which?
Tin Yat lineage is not a system, it is direct Pure Taoism and they do have a Divine Master if u ever go read about Tin Yat. New doesnt mean is makeup sect. Anything new have its value. Use of words are expression of oneself not disrespect when being unreasonably critizised so doesnt mean it make the person saying it a hooligan. Even a refined person when being bully will also flare up n can make indecent comment. Thats human nature.
Anyway there is no free lunch in this world, everyone need to make a living to survive.
Dont tell me u help others for free and dont need it to eat? Depend on donations or red packet still right? Still need to eat too.. whatever service Tin Yat offered is up to the public to see their value and the effectiveness of their service and products. So there is nothing wrong to that.
There are many so called religion sect doing all sort of services are scammers too even though they can say whatever sweet words about themselves. So how would u say Tin Yat is new and borrowed or made up from other Taoist practices is not REAL AND PURE Taoism sect just because its new to many people like u all and their cultivation and Taoist practices are different...Of course the Jo Si in Tin Yat have the power then they dare to claim what they can do.. not those who can do everything in this world even able to make money appear... all this are BS.
To me all this MONKEY GOD is just a fable story... the Chinese always say: if the fellow bullshit, its like the story Journey to the West.. its a myth and making up story.

do try not to take offense that was not initiated, mak jo si; flowing hands clearly did not make any attack upon your lineage, but brought up some valid questions pertaining to the nature of your lineage.

You bring up something valid too, if true:

That Chi Tien Da Shen is a fictional character.

Which, if true, does pretty much uproot a lot of the related traditions. But i do not know one way or the other. its your word against theirs.


Words are hollow, come to my campfire and discuss in person. Ten minutes of body language tells more tales than your life's story on paper ever could.

Die Hard Trojan Von Nut wrote:do try not to take offense that was not initiated, mak jo si;  flowing hands clearly did not make any attack upon your lineage, but brought up some valid questions pertaining to the nature of your lineage....
Words are hollow, come to my campfire and discuss in person.  Ten minutes of body language tells more tales than your life's story on paper ever could.

Please read this:

" The Tin Yat system is an invented system and has no lineage, there appears to be no Divine Master teaching the self made Taoist priest who heads this sect. Alot of what he does is borrowed or made up from other Taoist practices. A genuine Taoist priest would not use words like F***, S*** etc. He wouldn't need to be telling everyone how wonderful he is and is relying on selling his brand of Taoism to make a living. Genuine Taoist priests are concerned with inner cultivation and helping others."

This whole passage is an attack by accusing our lineage of "borrowing" or even "stealing" or 'made up" from "OTHER" Taoist practice, which is is invalid, and false. But yet his whole message is implying strongly that his lineage is genuine and he is here to proof ours is not. That IS an attack worded with sugar coat. I hate hypocrites, politics, and people who like to play with words.

But ya, this Chai Tien Dai Shen is a fake bullshit, anyone with proper history know it, and the bullshit hoax dates back to the Boxer's Rebellions, who used these novel characters to scam people into their cult and fight with them, promoting possession of "Gods" like how you can have batman enter your body and become bladeproof etc. Only the people who don't study history will be scammed into those cults. Oh yes, and these cults are all over Asia, especially Malaysia and Singapore, where there are TONS of scammers and con artist in the religious field,

My student Tin Yuen live in Singapore and Tin Sun live in Malaysia, they both witnessed all these scammers and con artist too, and they have big temples and tons of people to mock you down if you "offend" them. That's not something new.

There is a guy who claim to be a GOD who recently just died on saturday, it was on the news and everyone on TV show you that he is and claim to be the "White Dragon King" deity, which is AGAIN, from the novel of Journey to the West, but this guy is VERY famous and VERY BIG, you know why? Moeny, power, gangsta, media. That's the reason. When you are backed up by gangsta, you can say you are anyone, you know? That's how Asia work. Eye opening eh?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

Please paste this on your browser url box and press enter, Mr. Nut, (lazy..) and you will see the bullshit busted right away. What the hell people don't get it even it is all over the world now --- busted.?  

dont get me wrong, im not supporting anyone who is attacking your system/lineage/nonreligion/sect/Tao not by a long shot!

But a lot of what ANYONE does, or even CAN do is and WILL BE "borrowed" from others. mimicry of similarities...

an example would be two people on opposite ends of the world coming to an identical thought at the same time, uninfluenced by one another... over time, one half of the world will believe Lao Tze (Lousy?) invented "the idea" and the other half of the world will believe Sitting Bull invented the idea...

Who is the "more authentic"? The teacher whose lineage was passed down from Sitting Bull, or from Lao Tse?
Or is it more authentic to come to the idea on your own and say "Fuck 'em" to everyone who is a follower of a teacher of either sitting bull or lao tse??

Also: Asia has long been known to be largely, if not primarily, gang operated.

But so are ALL nationalities, civilizations, religions, corporations, etc.


The sad truth is it is rooted to a pure seed: Family.


Family, when raised well, becomes a clan.

Family with no relatedness becomes dispearsed and winds up in various gangs.



Family is the primary enemy of finance. the propaganda is to blind everyone to their own suicide.

Die Hard Trojan Von Nut wrote: dont get me wrong, im not supporting anyone who is attacking your system/lineage/nonreligion/sect/Tao not by a long shot!

No worry I know that well.   I said already, I don't mind anyone raise questions or discussion, but then, I hate people coming to attack us and pretending to be a sheep while they are shit. You know how to differentiate real genuine discussion and fake right? I believe you do. This guy sign up today, and boom straight into this thread, to do what he did. You think he is coming for discussion? Really? I don't see a trace of that.

Die Hard Trojan Von Nut wrote:
But a lot of what ANYONE does, or even CAN do is and WILL BE "borrowed" from others.   mimicry of similarities...

an example would be two people on opposite ends of the world coming to an identical thought at the same time, uninfluenced by one another...   over time, one half of the world will believe Lao Tze (Lousy?) invented "the idea" and the other half of the world will believe Sitting Bull invented the idea...

This is because of the culture gap we got here. You are not Asian nor from Asia, and you don't know how people fight in the Taoism forums in Chinese most of the time. When one say you "borrow" from this and that sect, it automatically means that you steal knowledge from other places to brew your own pot of crap, and this is an insult to the lineage. I know, you look at things from the "wordings" side, but you must also pay attention to the culture too, which you lack, and here I am telling you what you miss out.

Die Hard Trojan Von Nut wrote:Who is the "more authentic "? The teacher whose lineage was passed down from Sitting Bull, or from Lao Tse?Or is it more authentic to come to the idea on your own and say "Fuck 'em" to everyone who is a follower of a teacher of either sitting bull or lao tse??  

Well, this is a good point too.

google wrote: Of undisputed origin; genuine: "authentic 14th-century furniture".
Made or done in the traditional or original way: "authentic Italian meals".

The word authentic means it is genuine, real and unchanged from the original source it came from. We Tin Yat Lineage claim we are "Pure Taoism" and never say we are authentic, because we don't even want to run into the argument of "who is the first guy", just like what you said. You see the point well and your see it clearly, more clear than the Asian! Applause to you!

I must say that we are authentic only to our own lineage, because I am the co-founder (the other one is Lau Jo Si). Who is more authentic than us the founders? Nobody can be. But we never claim we are authentic Taoism, because we hate that argument as mentioned above.

Everyone have the rights to choose what to believe, and we do not mean to convert anyone to believe our way. We just present who we are, what we do, and how we cultivates, etc... nothing pushy, nothing hard selling, and I just don't know why people keep coming to me and want to tell me what I "should" be and do, saying their lineage is genuine, ours is fake, etc. You see it clearly from this monkey-god guy already, what a headache eh?

Well it seems exceedingly clear to me that 'spiritual' you are not and your henchmen know nothing about ancient culture only wiki and the tv! You are bringing the name of Taoism into disrepute by your debased attitude and language. You really know nothing about Taoism by your own words or anything about your own language and ancient culture. The wu and fang shi have been around for more than 20,000 years and the word Tao is the pictogram of an ancient shaman wearing deer antlers. The pictogram is then added to by a 'foot' pictogram which brings us to a meaning of a 'wise way', starting off with my fore fathers/mothers as ancient wu. In Malaysia and else where there are people who practice the hetrodox path. But possession by an Immortal is not hetrodox, it is the people as usual who miss-use their power given to them by the Immortals. The Monkey God is a real person and was a Taoist Immortal many thousands of years ago. He was believed in by many ancient villagers and worshiped long before 'the journey to the west' was written. It was the folk religion of that time which contained that belief of the Monkey God and of course the wu of that time could invite the Monkey God to come. Religious Taoism only came into being with Chang Tao Ling, before this and in Lao Tzu's time ancient China was a steeply shamanistic culture. So the Monkey God was interwoven into the story of the journey to the west. He is a real Immortal, along with my other Immortal Masters.
What qualifies you to speak in the way you do? Who's your teacher if they have anything about them they will have great respect for me. I have been learning from Immortals for 29 years and I say I'm not a master of anything and yet I see that you invent a sect and suddenly you are a Master? I see others also who carry a long list of arts they have 'mastered' and yet the reality is that it takes perhaps thirty years to master one thing properly let alone a long list. And you want genuine people to believe in your arrogant, swearing and belittling way that in some way you are a 'master' and a spiritual man? Think again, take a look at yourself, the self styled master of an invented sect held up only by henchmen of your own making. You have not shown me any reason to believe that you are no better than the frauds that you so quickly like to dispatch into convenient places that you feel superficially puts you into a better light.
Do not insult the Monkey God, your knowledge is very little and his power is very great indeed.

I don't even see the point of answering this person "flowing hands' even further, because I don't see he is even reading properly.

Flowing Hands wrote:What qualifies you to speak in the way you do? Who's your teacher if they have anything about them they will have great respect for me. I have been learning from Immortals for 29 years and I say I'm not a master of anything and yet I see that you invent a sect and suddenly you are a Master?

Too bad, this "Monkey God lover" doesn't have a straight logic, what can I do? Honestly, "Flowing Hand"'s intention of joining the forum is clearly shown, which is to hijack my thread, jam in and speak like he know about "Taoism" more than me and teach me what to do, how to speak, what is real Taoism.

EXCUSE ME! Did I ever ask for your opinion?

"Flowing Hands", I will terminate our conversation here and will not answer you further more since you do not think with a straight logic nor even intended to discuss anything. I am making it clear that I am opening this thread to share our perspective on Tin Yat Lineage. If you are disagreeing with that, so be it, go with your monkey lineage and have fun AT YOUR OWN PLACE. I do not even need or want to debate with you at all, because I never go to YOUR PLACE to talk about your lineage.

Stop the bullshit. We are ended here. PERIOD.

To you I am wu Flowing Hands and a true teacher is benevolent and humble, he conducts himself by using the female principle;
'the soft and yielding will overcome the hard and the strong'

The female principle is the basis of Taoism not your swearing, debase and in your face attitude. Remember this 'Master'. Get yourself a real teacher, learn to be humble and loose the titles. Perhaps we may believe that you know something if you have the right demeanor of a Taoist master.

I have been scammed into Mazu religion for almost 37 years and had visited temples taoist plus buddhist temples in USA, Taiwan and China to find out they are beautiful statues only.  Why on Earth will god want to help human? If you can't pay your bill can you ask god to rain money to you? If you are hungry can god cook you food or buy you food? If you break your bone can god heal you right away? These questions are what I have been through and the answer is NO NO NO and No.

Regarding Monkey King god...do you see monkey in the zoo kneeling down when they see that so called god? Or only wild monkey will knee down?  If the answer is NO then why will a highest species human on Earth need to bow and pray to a lowered species monkey.

If one believed what they heard on the news and don't use their brain to sort the logic, then that is one dumb fool. If today news report a dog can heal the sick  and make you rich, then will you really believed it? If not, I don't understand why an ancient culture story can be so persuading. Human should get smarter and smarter with technology and not the other way around.

I have seen a "monkey king god" in the past and I have  always thought it was very entertaining seeing them perform....but god hahahahaha really a good laugh.

You arent describing culture, you're describing common assumptions.


And im not offended that you accuse me of having no culture, but it only acts as an indication from which i would assume "your culture" are ignorant people who are self important


The way you come off like that... i know it isnt intentional, but you are riding on assumptions... that isnt cultural.. thats ignorant, which i am sure you wouldnt be favoring or promoting Least of all calling "cultural"

Culture is a spirit of people... i have the spirit of the pacific northwest strong in me. I have culture. I am only saddened that you cannot see that. not offended.

Tin Lui wrote:I have seen a "monkey king god" in the past and I have  always thought it was very entertaining seeing them perform....but god hahahahaha really a good laugh.

Oh ya you went to this guy in the past when fooled by that ghost possessed sister too.

(copy and paste this into the URL box)
youtube.com/watch?v=d8LWoiRO1S0

LOL! What a joke eh? Monkey God possession my ass. These people think god need to be your dancer, and so we should start to summon Psy into your body instead, see if we can speak Korean all of a sudden and talk with Korean people! If you can do it, I believe your Psy is real, HAHAHAHAHA!

Die Hard Trojan Von Nut wrote:
And im not offended that you accuse me of having no culture, but .......t. not offended.

I didn't say you have "no culture", you got it wrong. I said you don't know the culture in Asia or of Asian people, those who talk in forums and stuff like that. You misunderstood me.

Mak Jo Si...I was raised in a Taiwanese culture where the possession by their so called "god" is a blessing and gifted. The problem these people don't understand is POSSESSION is a nature violation to a human soul and body. It is just like a President of country one day decided to penetrate your body without your consent...more like a rape. God in a logical sense have their agenda in their own world (not Earth of course) and will not interfered in human life. Only those evil god or demonic entity will possessed human. I think that is a very easy logic to understand. So for a monkey to be a god AND possessed a body is fucking crazy. One must be scammed by a monkey to think it is a god.

Tin Lui wrote:It is just like a President of country one day decided to penetrate your body without your consent...more like a rape.....must be scammed by a monkey to think it is a god.

HAHAHA! Ya, just like what you said in your recent YouTube video, very logical, but people still don't get it and think God should be able to rape you, your wife, your daughter, your son, etc.. anytime they like. LOL! They still call that a blessing, gosh, wondering where their dignity and self-respect went?  

Why hasn't the monkey king god saved the monkeys trapped by humans in the zoos or for monkey brain meals? Because monkeys don't pray???!! ???

Tin Yee wrote:! ???

what are these?  

Hi Everyone

Brilliant Tin Yee!! Right if it were so we would be in a world of real planet of the apes!! LMAO LOL

And i could just be a evil spirit pretending he is the monkey king how do we know its not something else? I am just a baby in all this but thats a obvious question to ask IMHO

Thanks
Chris Arnold
Desert Dao Center

Flowing Hands wrote:Let me introduce myself; I am a traditional Daoist Holyman (wu Shi).
I was accepted by my Divine masters 29 years ago in a temple in Malaysia. I was then baptized by another wu in a trance of the Monkey God, Chi Tien Da Shen. I have been taught by my Divine masters since then. On my website you will see that my lineage comes from the Mao Shan Temple, my Masters are there as the head of the sect. My alter in the Temple, has a holy table which has the three masters who I beg to come to me to draw the Fa fu, Fa shui and teach me martial arts etc. To be taught and become a student of an Immortal is a very difficult task, not given to anyone, or easily achieved.
Let me clearly state what I know: The Tin Yat system is an invented system and has no lineage, there appears to be no Divine Master teaching the self made Taoist priest who heads this sect. Alot of what he does is borrowed or made up from other Taoist practices. A genuine Taoist priest would not use words like F***, S*** etc. He wouldn't need to be telling everyone how wonderful he is and is relying on selling his brand of Taoism to make a living. Genuine Taoist priests are concerned with inner cultivation and helping others. As a genuine wu, we have little time for formal costume and is only worn or very few occasions and do most of our spiritual training and work in tatty jeans and t-shirts. There are many genuine Taoists out there, who are attached to genuine temples and long lineages that have established schools dating back to Chang Tao Ling. The Most Important factor of any spiritual sect is who is the Divine teacher?

Stop it.
You are from Penang.
You are from Tian Shen Sect.

Flowing Hands wrote:The Monkey God is a real person and was a Taoist Immortal many thousands of years ago. He was believed in by many ancient villagers and worshiped long before 'the journey to the west' was written. It was the folk religion of that time which contained that belief of the Monkey God and of course the wu of that time could invite the Monkey God to come.

So, the Monkey God is from the folk religion! Yeah, you are right! Nothing related to Taoism! But, you're calling your sect a Taoism sect, what a shame!

Tin Sun wrote:So, the Monkey God is from the folk religion! Yeah, you are right! Nothing related to Taoism! But, you're calling your sect a Taoism sect, what a shame!

Hahaha! so this guy is from the website bullshit you shown me before right? their temple have all kinds of bullshit on the altar and self-claimed whatever crap too. Oh what a joke. I really don't agree with the Zhen Yi sect and Quan Zhen sect in china, but I can still call them Taoism sect because they are. Can't avoid that. But this guy? Gosh, rubbish collector sect maybe! I mean.. if he want to claim the word Taoism, please do more research and really present something TAOISM man. Monkey God is not even TAOISM, it's a BUDDHIST novel! Sigh....

Ya, like people trying to talk about General Kwan .. what a joke... disgrace of that cool guy in video games eh? hahaha!

Kudos to Tin Sun! Debunking the bullshit!

hris Arnold wrote:And i could just be a evil spirit pretending he is the monkey king how do we know its not something else? I am just a baby in all this but thats  a obvious question to ask IMHO

Hahaha! No no no.. you you know what? Taoism should be "logical" and not abstract, vague and non-sense. If you cannot understand it when a "master" is explaining it to you, it's either there is language barrier, or the master really make no sense at all. That is also why people come to me and ask me why the Tao Te Ching in English out there are so vague.. and they don't really get it. When I show them mine, they all go "OH!!! Now that is very clear!!!" You see the different?

Btw, you finished my Tao Te Ching reborn book? what do you think of that?

youtube.com/watch?v=ScKjKf7SfOM

I just found this video on the Tian Shen Sect too, they are really a big cult!  Even the luk yam shen gong scam cult famous gangsta master is visiting them. That guy?  He is a gangster, a real one, and he sell fake motor cycle license plate befor he got rich and big with those casino stuff. Now? well, we need to realize that this "good man" have four wives, a few kids, and a broken family life, what a blessing his deity gave him eh? Monkey god save him... teach him how to have more children...! LOL!

If you look at that video above, you realize it's a mass possession, but some or many are fake and self-brainwashed to move too. Real possession with spirits is not like that, very easy to tell if one is purely acting or really possessed, but of course I am not going to teach this guy a lesson here and introduce him knowledge! LOL!  

Just hilarious to see cults like that in Asia and still can get by many victims who lack knowledge in history!

Oh ya, their website is really showing they are "stealing' Taoism stuff from the other big sects too, nice work!  You can already see it clearly that they are the one who is "Borrowing" stuff form other places. LOL!  If your deity is so great, they should pump you NEW and exclusive knowledge, not stir fry a bunch of other people's work into your own dish!  What a joke!

monkeygod2u.wordpress.com/category/tian-shen-sect-%E5%A4%A9-%E7%A5%9E-%E6%B4%BE/

HAHAHAHA!